RE: Managing Women - From a Guy’s Perspective
By Daniel
The sentiment and intent behind the article I posted yesterday was never written to cause offense. I apologize for the poor delivery of the message I wanted to convey. I think the backlash that I experienced on Brazen Careerist became an opportunity to blog about issues that are still relevant today.
It’s not completely fair to say that I mis-represented myself - Those were my words and I pushed the button that made it public to the world. What I can say is that it’s not the complete picture and I hope my thoughts this morning will shed more light onto who I am and where I stand on the topic of women in the work place.
What I’m choosing to address in this article are the differences between us, the question of what’s appropriate, and finally the glass ceiling (women in leadership positions). There are numerous angles that encompass this subject. I’m sure I haven’t thought of every scenario because my frame of reference, and my realm of understanding, is limited to that of a man. This article is very much intended to be an open dialogue.
Differences
I made a remark about idiosyncrasies as if they only pertained to women. I did so in a negative light as well. The truth is, of course they don’t. Men are just as diverse or quirky. Giving this more thought I was reminded of a quote from Good Will Hunting as Sean was reminiscing over these idiosyncrasies with Will…
“People call these things imperfections. But they’re not… ahh, that’s the good stuff. Then, we get to choose who we let into our weird little worlds. You’re not perfect sport, and let me save you the suspense, this girl you met? She isn’t perfect either”
Try as we might, our own little idiosyncrasies follow us to the workplace. Everyone picks up on them; we all fall victim to them sometimes. A lot of the differences that make us unique are not subject to any particular gender, color or creed.
There are, however, some defining behavioral differences that I think can be applied to the sexes. I previously brought in some immature humor to portray this idea, but let me share something more academic this time around…
It’s said that women detect emotions better than men. This is across the board form facial expressions, intonation, and body posture. It can be argued that this is part of societal upbringing, but I think it’s something more innate. There are major differences in the first year of life between girls and boys. Even in their first week, girls can distinguish between the sound of their mother’s voice and the cry of another baby from other sounds in the room. Boys cannot.
Whether or not this leads to women being more nurturing or empathetic in relationships isn’t certain. I’m not saying that all women act a certain way - because they don’t. I do believe that there are certain tendencies that a majority of women do lean towards - These tendencies are much different than men.
So if there are, arguably, some differences between us, how should we act with those differences in mind?
Appropriateness
I was debating whether or not to even address this. The easy answer is to let common sense guide you. Some people have more emotional intelligence than others, but the majority of people will know when they’re crossing a line.
I think we’re all drawn to relationships and community. It’s natural to want more than just acquaintances in the workplace. In developing any kind of relationship, the focus should always be what you can give and not what you can take. My “shooting fish in a barrel” comment was anything but that.
When you move from a self-centered mindset to another-centered mindset, compliments should come naturally and therefore genuinely. These compliments come about by really knowing the person you’re talking to. It’s something that gradually comes with time. This approach is far more uplifting to the receiver than any surface compliments I was referring to in my previous article.
The truth is, there’s no sweeping differences in treating men or women in the workplace. Respect should underpin all dealings with people in the office. You’re both their for the purpose of working so there’s always that common goal that should be the focus. If you treat people the way you would like to be treated yourself, more often than not they will return the favor.
So if the treatment of women in the workplace is no different than that of a man, what is there to say about women in leadership roles?
The Glass Ceiling
My faith is a very important part of my life. What I believe plays a strong influence in how I view the world. There are some universal concepts that hold true in life that I think is worth sharing.
God said “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
Genesis 2:18
The same Hebrew word used for helper (ezer kenegdo) in this context is used everywhere else in the bible as referring to God who is in power coming down to rescue his people. This is the one time it is used to refer to a human being… and it’s a woman.
There are a lot of things in my faith that I struggled with and questioned during my years in college. Complementarianism was one of them. Singling out men to be the only people responsible for leadership seemed against the concepts that Jesus taught. This exclusive “all boys’ club” wasn’t what I seemed to be interpreting when reading the bible. Taking the concepts as a whole and not focusing on single verses didn’t paint the picture I was brought up to believe.
I consider my last boss a mentor of mine. She’s compassionate and leads with a more democratic style. At the same time, she can just as easily switch to a more firm and direct approach when needed. I learned how to change leadership styles to fit the context and the people I would be talking to while I worked under her. It’s this sort of fluidity that she possesses that I had not previously seen in the male leaders I worked for.
Women are more than capable of being in leadership roles. In many cases, I think they bring a compassionate foundation, but do an incredible job of reading the people and the environment to turn on a directive style when it’s called for. My boss had almost a sixth sense in gauging emotion and matched her approach to accomplish what she needed.
My experience, what I believe and everything that is true to my faith, points to a world that shouldn’t have a glass ceiling. I truly believe that women are equal to the positions that are predominantly carried by men. Although times are changing, women are asked to make more sacrifices to get to those positions. That’s very much a reality that speaks to the strength and persistence of women that hold those male dominated roles.
So that’s where I stand and I hope I’ve painted a more complete picture of my thoughts on the topic. So I’ll open it up to some Q&A and take up the comments that were directed towards me yesterday.
@ Anonymous: Yea, I won’t make that spelling mistake again. Golf season is just around the corner though.
@ Dr. Pepper: You are completely right about applying these concepts to men as well. To give context - All my direct reports are about 50 years and older. One of them actually tried to set me up with her youngest daughter.
@Ask a Manager: Any type of manipulative strategy is a poor choice in management. I’m going to leave you with this quote by Frank Sinatra
“I’m supposed to have a Ph.D. on the subject of women. But the truth is I’ve flunked more often than not. I’m very fond of women; I admire them. But, like all men, I don’t understand them”
@ Evil HR Lady: Men can be very idiosyncratic.
@ Anonymous: I’m ok with liking 300.
@ Erin M Taylor: Well I don’t plan on ending my blogging with this fiasco so I’m hoping to turn it around with some future posts that will be more employer friendly.
@ Kat: Just so we’re clear… it’s not you, it’s me.
@ mouse: I appreciate guys opening doors for me when I have a ton of stuff to carry too. We actually have an editing process at Leading Associates. I, however, bypassed the step and just posted my article. I actually did it again with this one…
@ Amanda: I hope I could shed a little more light on my true thoughts on the matter.
@ Sam: Thanks for the advice and quick mentorship. Welcome to blogging right?
@ Anonymous: A poor approach considering my audience. Unfortunately, I forgot about that when I was writing about my workplace setting. I’m the youngest on my team by a good 25-30 years.
@ Amy Brown: Sorry
@KateNonymous: Yea, I failed miserably. Lessons learned. I do appreciate your summary. I like to plan out my posts like that. Unfortunately what I put around the outline didn’t really work out.
@ GenerationXpert Suzanne Kart: It’s definitely a generational thing. I’m like the awkward guy at the wrong party with really bad jokes.
@ Rebecca Thorman: Definitely. Thanks for the comment.
@ Anonymous: I’m a newb gaining experience.
@ Nicole Crimaldi: Haha, yea. These ladies are pretty easy going for the most part. Thinking about doing what you need to do get the job done… I guess that can become a slippery slope in the future. I really shouldn’t have to manipulate to get the job done. Although corporate kind of does that with us… The whole carrot and the stick I guess.
@ LPC: 50 year old women doing clerical work. Context is very important
@ Anonymous: Don’t plan to.
@ Deanna Mims: They did a very good job.
@ Anonymous: Fair enough.
Wow… It takes guts to go back out there and blog again (21st century equivalent of getting back on your horse). I’m not going to comment on your content — I think others have more than done that — but remind you that no one is 100% successful. Learn and move on. Good Luck!
I appreciate you rethinking your comments and posting a follow-up. However, you do still seem to be seeing things way too much through the lens of gender. While of course there are gender differences, the way you wrote about them yesterday — and to some extent, still today — is really condescending to women. Try seeing your employees as people, not “women” or “older women” or whatever.
And please, please, stop complimenting them on their physical appearance. No matter their reaction, it’s not appropriate and at some point in your career it really could get you in trouble. Learn to manage for results via leadership, not through gender-based assumptions.
I can appreciate that you re-addressed this today. It does seem as though you didn’t see the backlash coming. Ask A Manager gives you good advice: If you continue to lead based on gender, it could lead to trouble down the road.
If you have it in your head that there are differences, you can possible discriminate without knowing it. Learn from your experiences now before it becomes a costly lawsuit.
I do commend you for putting yourself out there and taking the hits. Regardless of your gender, it’s admirable.
It’s all right, sonny. Boys in their 20s always think they’re vastly superior to pretty much everyone. In short, you can’t help being a pompous ass. It’s a caveman/testosterone thing. Fortunately, we older women are compassionate enough to understand that (but by golly, we’re gonna gossip about you behind your back.)
Bottom line: Assuming anything about an individual, simply because that individual is part of a particular demographic, has a name. It’s called prejudice.
So, no, I don’t agree 100% with everything in this article, but that’s not my main concern. I’m more interested in the responses to the article. As a woman myself, I think it is common for some women to immediately take offense to any generalizations made about our gender. Let’s be real here. Women ARE different than men. It’s okay to admit!
“Assuming anything about an individual, simply because that individual is part of a particular demographic, has a name. It’s called prejudice.”
I disagree with that statement. I am assuming that the next guy I meet likes sports. I might be wrong in that assumption. But it’s not prejudice.
“And please, please, stop complimenting them on their physical appearance.”
I may be the one misinterpreting Daniel, but I didn’t get the impression that he was advising all men to compliment a woman on her blouse everyday. Again, as a woman, if I notice that a female coworker recently got her haircut(as an example), I will compliment it. This is not sexual harassment, nor should it be if a man does it. If the compliment is genuine and has no sexual overtones, I don’t see a problem with it. If it is a constant thing, directed at the same person every day, that’s one thing. But sporadic compliments when they are called for are completely fine.
I will say that every person is different. A person’s gender does tend to contribute to these differences in many cases, but I do not necessarily agree that a person should be managed on that alone. It’s good for the manager to understand the person as an individual, not as a member of a specific demographic. However, there may be many similarities in the way most women need to be managed as well as the way most men need to be managed.
My point is to every angry woman out there is get over it! Not every man who makes a generalization about women is sexist!!!
Lindsey, Daniel was attempting to give advice about good management. What he wrote was not good management. In fact, it’s so problematic that in some companies, it would get him removed from a management position.
Acknowledging there are gender differences is one thing. Misapplying it in the way he did (and without any sense of nuance) is entirely different.
The issue isn’t one of sexism as much as it’s one of really bad managerial judgment.
@Ask a Manager - managing people as people = v. smart inclusive thinking.
Also, I presume occasional compliments to staff delivered to staff from both are therefore ok?
Hmm, that comment got mangled, s/b “…occasional compliments delivered to staff from both genders…”
Daniel, that was a good job at dealing with the backlash to your original post. (And from the whole faith perspective, I understand where you’re coming from - I’ve just chosen as an adult to attend a church that will allow me to take on a broader role than nursery/kitchen duty.)
If you’re really interested in a woman’s perspective, what I would like to hear is not “gee, your hair smells terrific” but “that was a great job on the TPS reports this week.” If you want to compliment someone in the workplace, try complimenting them on their work. I know, crazy idea, but it makes those other things pale in comparison. I’d rather know my boss thinks highly of my ability to query the database effectively than know he likes my hair shorter. Particularly in today’s environment, when we’re all either looking desperately for work or worried about the stability of our own jobs and companies, letting people know where their strengths lie seems most valuable. That goes for any gender, any age.
Like AAM said, employees are people. Each individual deserves to be treated as such. There are catty men, brusque women, young people who have very conservative values, and some uber-lib Boomers. When discussing gender and generational differences, I wish we could all get past this broad strokes approach and focus more on the people behind it all.
@Lindsay — If you assume the next guy you see likes sports, that is, by definition, a prejudice.
Prejudice can be favorable, neutral, or unfavorable. It’s just pre-judging in the absence of facts.
I really appreciate all the comments and advice. It’s been a good learning experience for me. I definitely don’t know all the right answers, but I’m usually good at knowing what they are when I hear them. I’m still very green in this whole management arena. With that said, I hope you do swing back to share your wisdom on whatever we’re discussing in the future.
@Harry HR Guy and HR Goddess: We have some article ideas in the pipeline and I may shoot each of you an email to get some feedback. My old boss told me if HR is ever giving you advice, you better listen carefully. Your words are valuable.
@AAM: What you’ve said here has been well taken. Thank you.
@Kelly O: I have to say you’re my favorite of this group. I completely agree with what you wrote and you can be sure I’ve taken your advice to heart.
Thanks again everyone.
[...] for full disclosure, here is the author’s rebuttal to the [...]
Hey Dan - just letting you know that I am checking every now and then =) I didn’t read the article in its entirety and i didn’t get to read the one before, but i do agree with AAM - businesses are results driven and there’s no greater compliment than knowing you added value to the company regardless of whether someone’s hair smells nice or not.
Given a team to manage, I would treat each one with dignity and respect as commanded by the teachings of Christ - to value each one as an individual created by God and not based on gender or race. High performers and people of integrity are who I would want on my team.
Let me know when you come back to texas, we’ll go hit some balls.
Daniel,
You have just had a (perhaps first?) lesson in critical gender studies. It’s a thorny subject to navigate, and absolutely no one gets even close to being “right” the first time.
What’s interesting is that in your original post, and even in your much more thoughtful revised post, you too show both your age and gender. Which is fine, we all have an age and a gender, and none of of can hide either.
I’m going to make an assumption that you yourself are Gen-Y (or, a “millennial”). If you are, then its not terribly surprising that you hadn’t anticipated the response you got. In part, for lack of experience. But also because people who are in their 20s today are two generations removed from a lot of the struggles that form the foundation of the response you recieved.
Historically, saying “women are _____” or “women like _____” almost always resulted in women being dismissed, undervalued, and categorized. So, it’s not just the statement that has people hopping - it’s what it means in very real terms.
For example, the statement “women are emotional” could, if considered in a cultural vaccuum, be (a) an astute observation about the tendency of women to be intuitive, or (b) a true statement that would apply also to men. Unfortunately, historically and outside the cultural vaccuum, when the boss says “women are emotional” it was a way of saying that women were less intelligent, erratic, less reliable, and not tough enough to get the job done. It was (and sometimes still is) a very effective way of marginalizing women.
Thankfully, as a group, we’ve learned some things about how this works. Which is why @AskAManager wisely tells you that, in your role as a manager and leader, focusing on gender differences can land you in hot water (and as an employment attorney, I’ll tell you, it sure can!).
At the same time, you’re right. It cannot go unnoticed or ignored that women and men are different, and that individuals are different, and that leaders and managers need to pay attention to those differences to be effective.
My grandmother would tell you that you should always compliment a woman on her appearance.
My mother would tell you that pointing out our differences is dangerous because it becomes a rationale for minimizing and excluding women, and that you should go read the Equal Rights Amendment.
I will tell you that it’s okay to talk about differences. But, if you’re going to do it, makes sure you’ve taken the time and care to do so with a historical perspective, and to be thoughtful about the reality that what you see in front of you is never the whole story. You’ll make mistakes, and get it wrong, and even offend on occasion. But, if you continue to do (over time, and more deeply) what you’ve started here by being reflective, you’ll be a far wiser person than many with twice your experience.
To start, consider taking advantage of the fact that you work in a multi-generational workplace, and I bet the women you work with have a lot of history and perspective to share — and will appreciate knowing that you’re interested in what they have to offer.
Best,
Jessica
Jessica,
Thank you for your insight and thought provoking response. I think each generation has a great perspective to share. Reading through your post really made me realize how important it is to be reminded of where we’ve been and how far we’ve come. Sharing from a historical perspective helps us avoid making the same mistakes and falling back into old dogmas.
I also realized while reading your response, how beneficial blogging can be. It give us millennials a sort of mentorship that wasn’t so readily available in previous generations. I’m sitting here receiving management advice from an employment attorney. I really couldn’t ask for anything more!
You definitely have a lot of great things to pass on and I hope you do come back and help us develop (and mature) as young professionals.
Thanks again,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
You are most welcome, and I appreciate your note. I think that the trickiest realization to navigate - for anyone, of any generation - is that my grandmother, my mother, and me…we’re all correct. And that means, well, it’s complicated. But that’s what makes us interesting.
For what it’s worth, when I read your original post, while I definitely thought you missed the mark and made some silly errors, I also saw that you were attempting to approach what is a difficult and sometimes too serious issue with a bit of humor. They say that humor, done right, is the ultimate sign of intelligence. So, don’t be afraid to throw a little levity into it all. Just, you know, with a little more finesse and more carefully.
I also agree that blogging is great for these kinds of conversations. In that spirit, I contribute to a blog called The Legal Satyricon (randazza.wordpress.com), and welcome you there as well. Also, for HR purposes, I write a print and online publication called the California Employer Advisor (www.employeradvice.com), which has a free ezine on HR topics you can subscribe to.
Best,
Jessica
Club Glove Covers…
So on that note of getting published but not getting paid: We received a note from travel blog High Culture on a Low Budget , an online guide to European culture on the cheap, that they’ re currently looking to build a staff of bloggers to cover the …
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